Virtually everyone I hold dear are "woke" to some degree or another, Nathaniel! They are wicked funny, incredibly generous & brilliant. Sometimes exhibiting an echo-chamber's blindness to the facts on the ground. But their Lovely is why I try to nail comments & behaviors w/specificity [tho I undoubtedly fail in my aspiration].
The systemic aspect is why I focus on elitists v elites & reject punching down.
On the hippie aspect...Living in a state of willful ignorance married to Utopian aspirations is more cruel than kind regardless of motivations. At some point, one's good intentions do not exculpate one from the harms they cause when translated into policy/actions. But of course, you know all of this already, smart guy that you are.
Some of the hippy-types I know are trying to bring back communes, having learned their lessons from the past of not allowing free-loaders to burden their mini-societies. It's America, and they're free to try and I wish them the best.
It's the imposition of that lifestyle on people who don't want it where the problems arise. Ultimately, people need to be free to pursue happiness in the way that makes the most sense to them, and let them suffer the consequences of their decisions.
None of the people at the Burn tried to control me in any way. They went out of their way to constantly make sure I was ok, along with everyone else. They actually had really good systems in place to make sure everyone was physically and emotionally ok.
So if the hippies want to live one way, and Catholics another, and hedonists yet another, the gift of Western civilization is that we have lines for individuals and groups that they aren't allowed to cross to try and compel other people to bend to their will.
That's ultimately what I'm fighting to preserve - The right for everyone to swing their fists right up until it reaches another person's nose.
Not necessary to defend anything as I agree with almost everything you said. My caveat revolves around my distaste for constantly examining how one feels & whether one's needs are being met by others as I have watched the end-result of such self-absorption play out over a lifetime AND I have watched its powerful antithesis around the world!
As I say, many of the ppl nearest & dearest to me share these ideas. My sister, for example, has been a Sikh for 50 years starting her journey in an ashram in New Mexico where she still lives. I understood the impulse as she is reserved, shy & very beautiful [made life tough; envy IS a thing]; the ashram immediately enveloped her in a cocoon of love & community that is often lacking in the modern West. Turns out, it wasn't the Utopia she imagined but that is a whole other story.
This was very entertaining and the stories were ... interesting. So, you gonna see her again?
From ages 14-17, I was a hippie-wannabe. The Burns probably have one of their roots in the Merry Prankster's original acid tests and the other, the outdoor root, in the multi-day concerts of the 60s & 70s.
Anyway, by 18, I was pretty disillusioned with the actual hippies and hippie-wannabes that I knew personally. They were just as idiotic, hypocritical, self-serving, and status-seeking as pretty much everyone else, but with blatant disregard for some of the ridiculous constrictive norms of mid-20th century America (said disregard which, as a teenager, I loved, and still kinda do, tempered by recognition that some norms are there for good reasons). Thing is, you'd only see all the normally bad stuff in the rest of real life, not at some mega-social event, like multi-day concerts (back in the day) or Burns. I mean, plenty of them were fine, too, but they were normal-fine, not special wisdom, empathy, skillset or vision fine.
And I am pretty sure that, not the original hippies, but many in the wave of wannabes who came right after, if they avoided OD'ing and got degrees, became the fertile ground from which woke -- the authoritarian bad part -- emerged. The hippies always had multiple strains, though. There were the radicals (definitely catalysts of woke), the communal "back to the land" types, but there was also a libertarian streak. (Stranger in a Strange Land, Heinlein SciFi, was a sorta hippie Bible, hell the Pranksters expropriated Heinlein's "grok" to capture the subjective feeling of vast understanding of experience while on LSD and beyond). Heinlein was a hardcore libertarian.
She made me howl and then purr - Of course I'm going to see her again. We're planning on doing a bunch of classes together like dancing and acrobatics when I get back (we had a great time doing a couple's acrobatics class at the Burn). She's super intelligent and is as wonderfully weird as I am.
To give the feminists their due, "the politics is personal." The Left has become almost entirely feminine-coded, for better AND worse, just as the Right has become almost entirely masculine-coded, for better AND worse. Harmony isn't everyone being the same, it's the Yin and Yang being balanced with one another.
My youth was spent in the punk scene, and it's kind of funny going in because you know it's a Wonderland / Fantasy Island for angsty youth and that you're going to age out of it pretty quickly. With notable exceptions, hanging out in those spaces after 25 definitely has a "How do you do, fellow kids?" vibe to it.
I made friends with some (suspected) libertarian types as well, although politics never actually came up. Those kinds of spaces aren't meant to be complete lifestyles, but it was a much needed break after this last semester. As Prince said, "parties aren't meant to last."
I think Gad Saad has a good point about the feminine Left having overdone it on empathy. It's the driving motivation within the classic oppressor-oppressed dichotomy, and when it gets combined with the feminine fear of being socially isolated and ostracized, you get this massively powerful urge to turn the whole world into one big daycare, managed by a Nurse Ratchet figure, to make sure none of us are allowed to have or express any ideas that are naughty.
And of course the response by the masculine Right, as embodied by the walking, talking archetypal Bad Boy Trump, is to turn the whole thing into a game and just smash all of the underlying societal structures, sacred or not. MAGA is one big dare to the feminine Left to go ahead and try controlling them.
But this isn't even a little bit healthy. So I choose to be friends and partners with people across the political spectrum. I have no desire to control them, and all I ask is that they not try and control me. I think that's where things need to go to start restoring respect and trust across the divide.
Forgot to mention but your new Hippie/Burn name, ‘Coyote’ pasted a smile deep within. SHE sounds special.
Virtually everyone I hold dear are "woke" to some degree or another, Nathaniel! They are wicked funny, incredibly generous & brilliant. Sometimes exhibiting an echo-chamber's blindness to the facts on the ground. But their Lovely is why I try to nail comments & behaviors w/specificity [tho I undoubtedly fail in my aspiration].
The systemic aspect is why I focus on elitists v elites & reject punching down.
On the hippie aspect...Living in a state of willful ignorance married to Utopian aspirations is more cruel than kind regardless of motivations. At some point, one's good intentions do not exculpate one from the harms they cause when translated into policy/actions. But of course, you know all of this already, smart guy that you are.
Some of the hippy-types I know are trying to bring back communes, having learned their lessons from the past of not allowing free-loaders to burden their mini-societies. It's America, and they're free to try and I wish them the best.
It's the imposition of that lifestyle on people who don't want it where the problems arise. Ultimately, people need to be free to pursue happiness in the way that makes the most sense to them, and let them suffer the consequences of their decisions.
None of the people at the Burn tried to control me in any way. They went out of their way to constantly make sure I was ok, along with everyone else. They actually had really good systems in place to make sure everyone was physically and emotionally ok.
So if the hippies want to live one way, and Catholics another, and hedonists yet another, the gift of Western civilization is that we have lines for individuals and groups that they aren't allowed to cross to try and compel other people to bend to their will.
That's ultimately what I'm fighting to preserve - The right for everyone to swing their fists right up until it reaches another person's nose.
Not necessary to defend anything as I agree with almost everything you said. My caveat revolves around my distaste for constantly examining how one feels & whether one's needs are being met by others as I have watched the end-result of such self-absorption play out over a lifetime AND I have watched its powerful antithesis around the world!
As I say, many of the ppl nearest & dearest to me share these ideas. My sister, for example, has been a Sikh for 50 years starting her journey in an ashram in New Mexico where she still lives. I understood the impulse as she is reserved, shy & very beautiful [made life tough; envy IS a thing]; the ashram immediately enveloped her in a cocoon of love & community that is often lacking in the modern West. Turns out, it wasn't the Utopia she imagined but that is a whole other story.
This was very entertaining and the stories were ... interesting. So, you gonna see her again?
From ages 14-17, I was a hippie-wannabe. The Burns probably have one of their roots in the Merry Prankster's original acid tests and the other, the outdoor root, in the multi-day concerts of the 60s & 70s.
Anyway, by 18, I was pretty disillusioned with the actual hippies and hippie-wannabes that I knew personally. They were just as idiotic, hypocritical, self-serving, and status-seeking as pretty much everyone else, but with blatant disregard for some of the ridiculous constrictive norms of mid-20th century America (said disregard which, as a teenager, I loved, and still kinda do, tempered by recognition that some norms are there for good reasons). Thing is, you'd only see all the normally bad stuff in the rest of real life, not at some mega-social event, like multi-day concerts (back in the day) or Burns. I mean, plenty of them were fine, too, but they were normal-fine, not special wisdom, empathy, skillset or vision fine.
And I am pretty sure that, not the original hippies, but many in the wave of wannabes who came right after, if they avoided OD'ing and got degrees, became the fertile ground from which woke -- the authoritarian bad part -- emerged. The hippies always had multiple strains, though. There were the radicals (definitely catalysts of woke), the communal "back to the land" types, but there was also a libertarian streak. (Stranger in a Strange Land, Heinlein SciFi, was a sorta hippie Bible, hell the Pranksters expropriated Heinlein's "grok" to capture the subjective feeling of vast understanding of experience while on LSD and beyond). Heinlein was a hardcore libertarian.
She made me howl and then purr - Of course I'm going to see her again. We're planning on doing a bunch of classes together like dancing and acrobatics when I get back (we had a great time doing a couple's acrobatics class at the Burn). She's super intelligent and is as wonderfully weird as I am.
To give the feminists their due, "the politics is personal." The Left has become almost entirely feminine-coded, for better AND worse, just as the Right has become almost entirely masculine-coded, for better AND worse. Harmony isn't everyone being the same, it's the Yin and Yang being balanced with one another.
My youth was spent in the punk scene, and it's kind of funny going in because you know it's a Wonderland / Fantasy Island for angsty youth and that you're going to age out of it pretty quickly. With notable exceptions, hanging out in those spaces after 25 definitely has a "How do you do, fellow kids?" vibe to it.
I made friends with some (suspected) libertarian types as well, although politics never actually came up. Those kinds of spaces aren't meant to be complete lifestyles, but it was a much needed break after this last semester. As Prince said, "parties aren't meant to last."
I think Gad Saad has a good point about the feminine Left having overdone it on empathy. It's the driving motivation within the classic oppressor-oppressed dichotomy, and when it gets combined with the feminine fear of being socially isolated and ostracized, you get this massively powerful urge to turn the whole world into one big daycare, managed by a Nurse Ratchet figure, to make sure none of us are allowed to have or express any ideas that are naughty.
And of course the response by the masculine Right, as embodied by the walking, talking archetypal Bad Boy Trump, is to turn the whole thing into a game and just smash all of the underlying societal structures, sacred or not. MAGA is one big dare to the feminine Left to go ahead and try controlling them.
But this isn't even a little bit healthy. So I choose to be friends and partners with people across the political spectrum. I have no desire to control them, and all I ask is that they not try and control me. I think that's where things need to go to start restoring respect and trust across the divide.
Plus, she's really cute.